Remember, Don’t Do Group Dates Early On! | Doc Love - Dating Advice For Men

Remember, Don’t Do Group Dates Early On!

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(Editor's Note, this letter was written before Doc's death in August, 2020 but still relevant as Doc's principles are timeless).

Hey Doc,

I’m a freshman in college and I love what you do. You always have really good advice, whether it’s in your column or on your radio show. Keep up the great work.

Here’s my problem. I started hanging out with Natasha about a week ago. We hit it off from the start. She’s drop-dead gorgeous, but she’s also well-rounded and has a great personality, too. Doc, I really, really like her. This past Saturday night her friend threw a party and Natasha and I went together. We talked for a while, and by the end of the night we were being very romantic and she kissed me three times on the lips without my making a move. Natasha said she really liked me, so I figured this one was in the bag. She doesn’t go to parties and hook up with guys all the time, so this was definitely something special.

I told Natasha I’d call her the next day. So I left a message on her voicemail on Sunday and she didn’t call back. Later that night she sent me a text message saying she was too tired to talk, but that we’d see each other the next day at school.

Here’s what I don’t get: Natasha was all over me Saturday night, but she wouldn’t even phone me back when I called her. Today when we saw each other in school she was a little awkward around me and she stayed close to her friends a lot more than usual. We agreed to hang out this weekend but she wasn’t that enthusiastic about the idea.

Doc, I really like this girl and I’d love to have a relationship with her. I don’t want this to be just a one-night hook-up and nothing else. So how do I communicate this to her without coming on too strong?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Jose - who doesn’t want to say the wrong thing

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Hi Jose,

Thanks for the compliments. And let me suggest that The Dating Dictionary should be required reading for every student on the planet. If it were, there’d be a lot less problems in the world, guaranteed.

Now Jose, with “The System” we don’t “hang out.” We go on dates. We get dressed up. Sprinkle on a few drops of nice cologne. Shine our shoes and brush our teeth. Then we paste on a big smile, and when we get to the door, we say “Showtime!” We want the girl to know that we’re after her, but in a subtle and nonverbal fashion. We’re going to say it with our actions because we don’t believe in talking about heavy stuff and giving our power away.

I’m sure Natasha is all the things you say, Jose. No doubt she can pass for Gigi Hadid. And she’s one more thing: she’s between 18 and 22. Which means she’s not fully-grown (neither are you), and we all know that a young girl is nothing if not dangerous when it comes to falling in love. She doesn’t know what she wants yet (neither do you - this applies to guys too). She’s just a baby, and so are you, but that’s all right. We all have to start somewhere.

And I have no doubt that you’re crazy about her. She’s drop-dead gorgeous, so who wouldn’t like her? But the more important point is this: what’s HER Interest Level? Does she touch your arm five times whenever she sees you? Does she tail you around the halls at school trying to get your attention? That’s what you’re not telling me. And it’s the only thing that matters.

Your big date with Natasha was more like a big mistake, buddy. And your first blunder was going on a group date. What have I told you guys a zillion times? No group dates. You should be taking this girl to different types of places around town. Unusual, unique places. Far-out restaurants. The zoo if there is one. Doing things that other high school guys don’t do. You’ll stand out in the crowd, believe me.

I’m sure too that Natasha said she liked you – but she didn’t say it after 10 years of marriage. If she did, then you can do somersaults and back flips. But she said it after two hours. Two hours isn’t enough. Two hours is nothing.

Jose, I hate to break this to you, but Natasha does like go to parties and hang out with guys – she kissed you, didn’t she? Let’s get real here. How do you know what she does? Have you had a camera on her, watching her every move? And she’s drop-dead gorgeous to boot? She’s heavy duty. And you’re putting her way up on a pedestal. The truth is that you know nothing about Natasha. Absolutely nothing.

And of course you ran and called her the very next day. Hey, she looks like she should be on the cover of Seventeen, right? Why don’t you just ask her to go steady already? Say, “Natasha, let’s go steady because I can’t wait – I’m in a real hurry!”

What you should have done was not answered Natasha’s text message at all. But like most boys with big egos – and I’m talking about 45-year-old boys here too – you had to charge in and try and “fix” things. Anytime you get a mixed signal from a girl and you sense a drop in intensity, you should be GONE. Out of there.  

Natasha didn’t call you back? Heck, I can see it. It’s really tough to make a phone call. She had to pick up her iPhone 11, which weighs all of 6.84 ounces, then she had to punch in the digits seven times and she had to say, “Listen, baby, I had a great time, and I’ll see you at school tomorrow. I’m dying to see you again, but I’m just out of gas. I don’t mean to be rude, but I knew you’d understand, because I took the 30 seconds necessary to call you due to my high Interest Level, and because I’m a classy girl and I’m always up front.”

But she didn’t do that, did she? This beauty was all over you for one night – and that’s all. I want her all over you for 10-12 dates. One night is nothing. Remember: UNTIL YOU GET TO 10-12 DATES, NOTHING COUNTS.

Know why Natasha didn’t phone you back? Because you’re pressing her. She’s a knockout. She’s dying inside for a Challenge, and all she finds is little boys pressing, pressing, and pressing. You smooched three times and here you are falling in love forever.

You should have phoned in sick to school the next day. You should have made her wonder where you were. Yet you’re forcing Natasha to get together on the weekend. Here a girl is pulling back, and you keep pushing her. To you Psych majors, pressure never works in a romantic relationship – period.

Jose, if Natasha isn’t enthusiastic about getting together again, call her up on Thursday and break the date. I dare you.

You say you listen to my radio show and you read my column and then you make the statement that you want a long-term relationship. Apparently Natasha wants just a one-night hookup and nothing else. But no, you’re thinking, you’re the only one. You’re the first one. No one’s ever rapped to this woman in her entire life. No other guy’s ever kissed on a Saturday night. Dude, you keep thinking that. And keep smoking whatever you’re smoking.

Pal, you want Natasha pounding on your door, pleading with you to come out, calling you, begging to know what’s wrong because you haven’t gotten back to her and she’s left you three phone messages, texted you six times and you’re not giving her the time of day.  When she’s going nuts over you, then maybe we’ll give her another shot.

Remember, guys: when you sense a discrepancy in Interest Levels, it’s time to withdraw!

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